[Carfreeliving] Fw: BoS Land Use -- Market/Octavia freeway ramp

[Andrew Sullivan]

Guys,



I've said it before, I'll say it again (maybe to a different email list?).  BETTER SIGNAGE is needed for this to have any chance of working.  The tiny little baby-sized "FREEWAY ->" signs ARE NOT sufficient to make it clear to out-of-towners how to get to 101 and 80!  



If the city wants people not to take that turn, it should put up BIG signs (i.e. 10' x 10', full sized highway signs) before Duboce: "101 South, 80 East -> / NO TURNS AT OCTAVIA".  Also at Octavia, again a full sized sign should say: "To 101 South, 80 East: Turn Right At Gough."



I know out-of-towners (ick!) should only go to the Wharf and all, but some do come to the Castro and environs, and it would be awfully nice to explain to them clearly how to get out of town.



(Of course, the preferred choice is to take BART and change to Muni at Civic Center, but unless we have a car buyback program on upper Market, this won't help the motorists already here.)



Andrew



------- Original Message -------

On 11/4/2005 03:35 Mike Sallaberry wrote:

Dave, you like the idea of funneling cyclists, many of whom are going 

around 20mph, into a 4'-5' wide channel with raised sides that may 

suddenly end up with a car across the end of it?



Such a median could not be designed to prevent right turning cars from 

going onto the freeway.  It would probably reduce the incidence of the 

illegal turns, but it would concurrently decrease the ability of a cyclist 

to avoid any cars that do turn.



That plus problems with debris gathering and not being swept up by regular 

street cleaners, or the increased odds of cyclists striking a raised 

island that they space on or don't look for/expect.  This type of design 

is also expressly prohibited by transportation design manuals.  Not that I 

always agree with these manuals, but I do in this case.



We can argue about this forever.  The only way to find out who is right is 

to actually build it, but you won't find me supporting it...or riding 

through it.  Maybe I'm completely wrong on this topic, but if I'm not, the 

lesson is going to be learned by someone who may not be around to talk 

about it afterwards.



On that melodramatic note...

Mike



----- Forwarded by Mike Sallaberry/DPT/SFGOV on 11/03/2005 06:17 PM -----



Dave Snyder <dave at livablecity.org> 

11/03/2005 03:14 PM



To

Joshua Switzky <Joshua.Switzky at sfgov.org>, Mike Sallaberry 

<Mike.Sallaberry at sfgov.org>

cc

Carfreeliving at livablecity.org

Subject

Re: [Carfreeliving] BoS Land Use -- Market/Octavia freeway ramp









Thanks, Josh, for this suggestion below:



>Intersection designs ... to make the right turn are

>not only totally possible, they have been discussed  ...  it would 

>take a bit of

>reworking a curb and throwing in a very short median, extending into the

>crosswalk, between the bike lane and the righthand traffic lane.



This is an idea worth trying.



Dave



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Andrew Sullivan



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