[Carfreeliving] Fw: BoS Land Use -- Market/Octavia freeway ramp

Tue Nov 15 12:29:53 MST 2005

hasn't it been two lanes for a long time prior to the construction? Also -
this isn't Caltrans' facility or jurisdiction, though, Division is a city
street, so I would think it's totally up to the City, not Caltrans (though
they might have striped/built the final street as part of the project).
-j

             Mike Sallaberry                                               
             <Mike.Sallaberry@                                             
             sfgov.org>                                                 To 
             Sent by:                  Carfreeliving at livablecity.org       
             Carfreeliving-bou                                          cc 
             nces at livablecity.                                             
             org                                                   Subject 
                                       Re: [Carfreeliving] Fw: BoS Land    
                                       Use -- Market/Octavia freeway ramp  
             11/14/2005 02:59                                              
             PM                                                            

I checked around with folks working on this project and they're working on
the signage, among a number of things.  It's partially dependent on whether
or not Caltrans will add a second lane at the 13th/Duboce/S Van Ness
off-ramp.  Right now it's apparently backed up badly with only one lane on
the on-ramp (it was two during the construction).
Mike

 "Andrew Sullivan"                                                         
 <sulli at sulli.org>                                                         
                                                                        To 
                                      Mike.Sallaberry at sfgov.org,           
 11/03/2005 08:15 PM                  Carfreeliving at livablecity.org        
                                                                        cc 

     Please respond to                                             Subject 
      andrew at sulli.org                RE: [Carfreeliving] Fw:  BoS Land    
                                      Use -- Market/Octavia freeway ramp   

Guys,

I've said it before, I'll say it again (maybe to a different email list?).
BETTER SIGNAGE is needed for this to have any chance of working.  The tiny
little baby-sized "FREEWAY ->" signs ARE NOT sufficient to make it clear to
out-of-towners how to get to 101 and 80!

If the city wants people not to take that turn, it should put up BIG signs
(i.e. 10' x 10', full sized highway signs) before Duboce: "101 South, 80
East -> / NO TURNS AT OCTAVIA".  Also at Octavia, again a full sized sign
should say: "To 101 South, 80 East: Turn Right At Gough."

I know out-of-towners (ick!) should only go to the Wharf and all, but some
do come to the Castro and environs, and it would be awfully nice to explain
to them clearly how to get out of town.

(Of course, the preferred choice is to take BART and change to Muni at
Civic Center, but unless we have a car buyback program on upper Market,
this won't help the motorists already here.)

Andrew

------- Original Message -------

On 11/4/2005 03:35 Mike Sallaberry wrote:

Dave, you like the idea of funneling cyclists, many of whom are going

around 20mph, into a 4'-5' wide channel with raised sides that may

suddenly end up with a car across the end of it?

Such a median could not be designed to prevent right turning cars from

going onto the freeway.  It would probably reduce the incidence of the

illegal turns, but it would concurrently decrease the ability of a cyclist

to avoid any cars that do turn.

That plus problems with debris gathering and not being swept up by regular

street cleaners, or the increased odds of cyclists striking a raised

island that they space on or don't look for/expect.  This type of design

is also expressly prohibited by transportation design manuals.  Not that I

always agree with these manuals, but I do in this case.

We can argue about this forever.  The only way to find out who is right is

to actually build it, but you won't find me supporting it...or riding

through it.  Maybe I'm completely wrong on this topic, but if I'm not, the

lesson is going to be learned by someone who may not be around to talk

about it afterwards.

On that melodramatic note...

Mike

----- Forwarded by Mike Sallaberry/DPT/SFGOV on 11/03/2005 06:17 PM -----

Dave Snyder <dave at livablecity.org>

11/03/2005 03:14 PM

To

Joshua Switzky <Joshua.Switzky at sfgov.org>, Mike Sallaberry

<Mike.Sallaberry at sfgov.org>

cc

Carfreeliving at livablecity.org

Subject

Re: [Carfreeliving] BoS Land Use -- Market/Octavia freeway ramp

Thanks, Josh, for this suggestion below:

>Intersection designs ... to make the right turn are

>not only totally possible, they have been discussed  ...  it would

>take a bit of

>reworking a curb and throwing in a very short median, extending into the

>crosswalk, between the bike lane and the righthand traffic lane.

This is an idea worth trying.

Dave

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